Glad you brought that up Sha Do we have used them in a trail run of skills practice"Caps" at the store using Bam airsoft reactive targets using AEG's +/- 400 fps denting but breaking in two off the sides, but outdoors they are a cats ass you have a hard time seeing them. As for N force and joules, always practice your ten foot rule and get em with a Knife "To close with and Destroy",

LOL....systematic weapons deployment;

450-250 feet - sniper rifle
250-40 feet - stoner rifle
150-10 feet - pistol
10-2 feet - knife
1-0 feet - bad language

SHA DO

But as for our rules MNR restictions we have to use bio,s and everybody should,for the environments sake,there's a lot of non bio laying around in somebody's contaminating that area for what the next 1000 yrs but who cares, we will be long since dead at that time, They are good BB,s try them out yourself at Frozen Ghost,we are just trying to offer the public the best quality to the consumer and having a good time !!

Thanks for pointing that out Sha Do. I've identified the possible consequences for hardness in speaking to people at TAC10 at the BB Bastard booth. Many people were given the opportunity to play in our BB 'lab', crush BBs, split them, look at them under magnification and discuss their properties.

Similarly this BB formulation has been brought up several times in threads and other discussions. Speaking for myself, I want to see everyone understand the properties of this BB formulation. It's unique properties has tremendous potential as an accurized BB round or an everyday BB round, and guys likes Sha Do, CDN_Stalker, Maddog and others will be commenting in the coming weeks and months about their own tests and experiences with these two products.

I recommend that if you're interested in using this round, watch for the playing and testing leaders in the community for what they say, as its my belief that the playing community needs to either accept or reject this product formulation or have a general agreement on its conditional use if some of these BB properties are problematic.

I think that it's exciting that we have new options and I doubt that silicas will be the last of the innovative materials that you see turned into BBs, but ultimately the playing community will pick what works for it.

for me, i dont see the necessity of players using silica BBs when you already carry a fantastic .28g product already.

For CAPS and other forms of accuracy testing and whatnot, by all means, use silica BBs, but for games standard BBs. SHA DO is right, the density of the silica BBs will transmit more kinetic energy to the target.

Now, instead of BBs breaking on my gun or body, they will either dent my gun or possibly cause more bleeders. Im not complaining about the bleeders, but im just worried about the possible effects.

im sure there is a mathematical equation, but if you were to shoot a .28g regular Bastard at a target at 10ft away, and do the same thing with a silica BB, i think the silica will cause more "damage". That because of the higher density, the end result of being shot with a silica BB would be as if being shot with a regular BB but at higher fps.

Also, wouldn't there be more instances of teeth getting knocked out because of the higher density?

Perhaps that doesn't make any sense, but i hope it does. It is just something that concerns me.

Again im not knocking you Scarecrow. In fact, i applaud you for diversifying the Bastard line. and for target stuff, silica bbs are ideal, but i just dont know about games.

This is a review thread for a product, not an opportunity for you to soapbox about doing what's right for the environment and promoting your game at your field.

As soon as anyone triesguilt tripping me into using a product I am automatically turned off of it, you want to market a product..do it the right way, don't feed me a bunch of lame hippie crap.

Brian has banned using clear BBs at TAC for CAPS and CQB nights because you can't see them well while cleaning up and also the space is shared with martial arts class and other activities where students and people train in bare feet. :p

I think Pusangani's testing supports some of the claims made in BioVALs marketing material (note I do not call it a lab report) - one of them being that the hardness causes greater deflection and carries more kinetic energy away from the target. I believe this to be true, but on for deflective shots, based on what I've seen here. Conversely, if there is less of a deflective angle, does that mean more energy is transferred to the target? Logic would deem it so, but practical testing is really the only way to determine this IMHO.

The problem is this conclusion is somewhat specious and counterintuitive - this is why I'm interested in seeing players either validate or discard property claims about this material.

Incidently no knock taken, your points are valid. I'm not landing on any side of the argument - I too believe the Bastard .28g product has yet to be challenged as an outdoor round, perhaps the only better one would be the .30g round, but I don't think its as univeral as the .28gr (ie: to upgraded guns). However, if the availability and acceptance of the 407ft-500ft argument becomes widespread and field limits rise, I can see .30gr becoming the new .28gr... lol. Wait and see I guess.

One thing I have learned about this sport and its Canadian players is that predicting their preferences and their ultimate decisions is tricky, and as a vendor, you need to keep on your toes, offer options and stay as flexible and responsive as possible, or you're dead out of the gate.

My opinion on that matter is on the public record. I get a little steamed on this subject, so forgive the repetitious post below.

Hosts can dictate whatever they want, its their land. My toxicity tests were posted at my booth at TAC10 and on my website. There are no toxic materials in *any* of the product line, and the styrene product is about 25 years and is reduced to CO2, carbon and water around that time. Silicas will last undisturbed for a long time - but its bio-neutral. The ECOBB product lasts between 90 and 365 days depending on local conditions. This isn't spent nuclear fuel. I wish the granola crunchers would get a grip.

As I've said before, everything biodegrades, nothing is toxic and its just a matter of timeline. Use whatever product fits your needs or your agenda.

Hi, I tried them on a coke can at 7 meters with a 400fps WE SCAR to compare them to my .30g Madbull bbs. I was very deceived because they simply bounce on the empty coke can compare the the .30g bbs that pass threw it. I though they were carrying more energy on impact, not that they would bounce on it? For me, as a result, far less damage done to the coke can compare to normal bbs...

I'm interested in how this turned out? How goes it in Canada and glass bb's? (silica whatever)

I did a crush test compared to Madbull aluminium bbs. With a plier and all my strenght I wasn't able to crush or disformed the silicca bb. I was able to disformed the aluminium bbs.

I've been slowly replacing using Armist bb's with bioval bio bb's.. my TM MP5 doesn't fire Armist bb's, misfeed every 2 rounds. Bioval BIO bb's are great! I currently use .25 in my Classic Army UMC and .20 in my TM MP5... and I've yet to have any misfeeds.. every last bb always feeds. For bio bb's, these are better than non-bio.

I'm going to stick with Bioval from now on.

Necroing this thread as I did some testing today with these BBBMax BBs.

- I had 4" gong targets at 20ft and 75ft.
- I also had 10" aluminum pie plate targets at 50ft. - 60ft. - 70ft. - 80ft. - 90ft. and 100ft.
- The temperature was 25c(30c w/humidex) with very little wind.
- The rifles used.... a G&G SIG550 and G&G SIG552.
Rifles are stock, other than the 550 has a tightbore barrel. They both shoot @ 390
fps. I also was shooting a stock KJW SIGP229R I believe it shoots about 330fps.

- The other BB I was using today was Madbull .28g

**** These BBBmax BBs are damn nice shooting BBs, I tell you what. ****

- Here is what I experienced....

- With the BBBmax, ALL targets hit with first or second shot, every time from 20ft to 100ft. With both rifles. With pistol I was getting hits consistently about 30% of the time out to about 60ft at the 4" gong.

- The Madbull BBs performed OK in the 552 (which is slightly more accurate than the 550 with the Madbulls). The 550 had more flyers with the Madbull ammo than the 552 with the Madbull BBs. The 552 shoots the Madbull BBs about 80% as accurate as the BBBmax. at the further distances. The 550 about 65% as accurate as the BBBmax.

- The BBBmax BBs really worked well in the 550. It was shooting as good as the 552 when using the BBBmax BBs. So I think that the accuracy issue I have with the 550, putting out flyers a bit too often, is a BB related issue.

- I had zero issues with feeding or jamming with the BBBmax... I did have issues with feeding, and jamming in the mags, with the Madbull BBs, in the same mags that I had no issues with the BBBmax.

- It seemed like there was no flyers at all with the BBBmax. Every shot was consistent. Very very consistent. nice and flat and very tight groups out to 100ft. Very Impressive accuracy.... very impressive.

- Where I target shoot is like a dump for the R.M. there are old abandoned vehicles there. As well as other good target materials. I shot at some of the vehicle windows from about 50ft. THESE DID LEAVE VISIBLE MARKS IN/ON THE GLASS.
the mark was a circular ring, a little smaller than a shim.
- I shot at the windshield, the door windows, triangle vent windows, and none of the windows cracked or shattered.

- I also shot at other surfaces there....concrete, plywood, steel, aluminum eavestroughing, posts, styrofoam insulation. I did not see any more marking than a regular BB would leave.... although the BBBmax did bounce quite far after hitting a hard object. Farther than a regular BB.

- visibility... into the sun, you could track them very easily. With the sun, they were very hard to see, almost impossible the first 50ft. with a light shaded background....with a dark background, they are more visible... but with a regular grass, gravel, clayhills type environment, only after about 50ft... that first 50 ft they are moving hella fast and very hard to see when shooting with the sun.

- I have not tried these in wind, but I assume they will react pretty much like any other BB in windy conditions.


*** My overall opinion....

These are a great performing BB. Really the best performance for a BB that I have seen. If these do not penetrate eye protection, and there is no glass to shoot out at the game site, I don't see why these couldn't be used in a game. IMHO
I would not have an issue being shot with these BBs.

Somewhat of a necro, but I thought I should add that I found an email saying that the bbbmaxes breaking glass was a lie, at least according to an email I found on the interwebs...