Sniper Help---WISDOM NEEDED
 

Hey guys. As you know Xmas is rolling around and I need some help. This is going to be lengthy, but any help is GREATLY appreciated. So first off let's clear some things up.
I'm going to get a sniper. I have about roughly 300$ to blow. Now...I'm not some 15 year old kid that is like "OH. THEY SNIPE THAT GOOD IN SCOUTTHEDOGGIE. I WANT TO BE A SNIPER!!!" Nor do I think because I can snipe like predator in CoD. I can do that In airsoft. So no "kid. Get an AEG" comments please :). I've owned an AEG and used my friends and owned a sniper (L96). And I love sniping. The patience,time and skill it takes to be successful is more fun that spraying a cloud of bb's. That's just my opinion. Now that that's out of the way let's get started.

Which gun should should I get and what should I upgrade?
I definitely loved the feel of my l96 while it lasted. But. I hear it has a bunch of problems such as the hop up and parts being hard to find when you want to upgrade it. What snipers would you recommend that are going to last and be a good basis to build on. A Vsr, idk...that's why I need you guys. Also. Do any places sell any guns pre-upgraded with everything you could need? I saw airsoftgi's g series snipers. But I don't trust them for $@€*. Now. If one of you guys say L96. What brand and what are all the parts I would need to accurately hit opponents from 210-300 feet away? I just need some advice here as you can probably tell. Any wisdom is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.
Tanner

sniper rifle....
as for a base,
Echo1 M28
Classic army M24
TM VSR-1
try to stay away from clones, they are hit and miss, and some upgrade parts will need help fitting into place

as for 300$ you'll probably blow that on the base gun itself

FME, a vsr is a good bet (try for TM if you can). Then upgrade the barrel, piston, cylinder head (or do the appropriate compression mods). Heavy, high quality bb's are a must... So barrel +compression for accuracy.

For 210-300 feet, I think you're going to need a bit more than 300$, if you want to hit it consistently.

Figured I'd be getting that. Hopefully I get more than 300$ than haha. Thanks for the response man

Stock snipers wont do you too well, IMO building a sniper weapon platform costs lots of money, even as much as an AEG, 300 will buy you a base gun, you will probably end up throwing another 200 at least if not more into internal parts.
E.g
Tightbore barrel
Trigger
Piston
Piston head
Cylinder Head
Spring guide

and the list goes on
maybe wait till you have more money before you decide to spend it on a SWS

A sniper rifle project in airsoft is a costly undertaking. Assume at least 700-1000 all in once all is said and done. If you can't afford to do it right I suggest holding off until you can, that way you save money in the long run.

TM VSR10
PDI Everything, M120/M130 Spring
Firefly Hop-Up Rubber, Hard Type
Leapers 3-9x40 Scope
Magpul MS2 sling

Enjoy.

Personally, since I've moved back here I've enjoyed enormous success with the above. I bought the rifle pre-upgraded with PDI everything, except for a 509mm length-6.03mm from Laylax/Raven/Prometheus tightbore and the Firefly Hop-up rubber.

You might be able to find some sniper rifles in the classifieds with some upgrades done

$300 is simply not enough for a sniper rifle, if you want to be any good.
If you like the L96, try to get a TM. It'll have to be custom ordered, but is possible.

Yeah TM just came out with their snow whatever L96, and I believe it uses mostly vsr parts.

Also PDI>>Laylax... just something to keep in mind.

Prepare to spend close to a 1000$ to have a gamable accurate rifle.

If you do buy a crappy clone, hope it has a good stock hopup and low velocity (fps). It won't shoot very fast, but it should have the range and accuracy comparable to a good AEG. If you play in a small paintball field, you will be able to shoot stealthy. But it won't be a sniper rifle on par with the "real" one.

Oh and plan a good 150$ at least for a quality scope. Idealy a entry hunting scope like a Bushnell 3-9x40mm.

Holy crap. Thanks for all the insight guys. I really appreciate it. This is definetly helping me decide what to get if I get anything.

My BA has set me back almost 2k.

I havent even put nearly as much into my BA as some of the more serious BA Users.

From my experience, you are going to have to double your investment, just to get a decent stock platform. The upgrades and such can go from there.

Bottom line is, buying a crappy base (such as a well, or other cheap clone brand) wont help you. The tolerances are all over the place, and you will have performance issues with your gun, even if you gut it and replace it with aftermarket internals.

Save for a solid platform and build from there.

That said, the rifle doesn't make the player

Hmm, I thought even in Canada, 2000$ would have gotten you just about every upgrade, unless we're talking about custom work?

marui VSR 10
PDI cylinder set, theres 2 diameters of spring, 9mm and 11mm, so make sure you match your spring accordingly
PDI V-trigger
laylax 6.03mm barrel
firefly hop rubber
PDI barrel spacers

That's everything I got in my rifle and it shoots like a laser

Hmm, normally people tell me to stay away from laylax barrels... Usually prommy, edgi and pdi are the suggested barrels (edgi here)

Not all parts/adaptors are availiable on the market. Some have to be machined and powdercoated.

Accessories, such as Harris, Scope spare mags etc etc are included in that #

I stuck with the Prommy tightbore, I wanted to keep mine at 6.03 as the bb's seem to stabalize better than with the 6.01s
Im looking for accuracy, not velocity on my rifles.

Gotchya, I thought the price was only the gun and upgrades, but with accessories, it looks a bit better.

laylax MAKES prometheus lol
They also make first factory, nine-ball, and tricked out fishing reels.

I own a TM VSR 10 aka PDI VSR10 which I had it for good 5yrs. Poured alot of time and $$ to get this bad boy to shoot super accurate and far. The only TM left is the stock and the mag release. 95% all PDI parts internal and external. PDI Premiere Bore up Vacuum Palsonite cylinder set(mod), Bore up v-trigger, PSS10 hop chamber(mod),lots of PDI spacers and PDI 6.01mm inner barrel. Shoots 495fps -/+5fps consistency.

can someone explain to me why using a clone base hurts performance even if you replace every internal part?

i have had great success with my L96 being able to hit hit 400 ft with a 2 foot variance although i have sank a decent amount of money into it

sloppy manufacturing tolerances may mean the hard mounting points are out of spec, a millimeter there, a millimeter here = huge difference when you're talking making a shot 200 ft away. You can't build a house if the foundation isn't done properly... well you can, it's just a shit house with crooked walls that could fall down at any time.

bad mounting points for parts so your airseal is an issue, mounting points could be loose.... if you think it's bad in airsoft.. you should see some of the car parts that come out of china... we're talking brake rotors that are x thick in one spot and half as thick in another.

When guys offer up an opinion...it's often a generalization and meant to apply to the masses. One disaster of getting a "cheap" gun to shoot well....doesn't make it true. Neither does ONE anecdote of making a "good" gun shoot well. And there's a natural occurance that guys will post up their sucesses....and not their disasters.

But if you look into it enough...and look where the points of reference are...you'll see trends. (i.e. a newcomer to airsoft who's only bolt gun has been a "cheap" gun...is bound to say it's working fine and was a great deal)

What I've found (and I've been continually wrong for almost 4 decades now and counting :)) is that you can replace a whole lot of parts...but at some level the foundations typically aren't alterable.

No part that you'll typically replace (i.e. piston/guide/sear/etc...) will address an issue of the outer barrel being less that sqarely/tightly set to the receiver. And unless you replace the receiver (or use thread inserts), nothing will make the soft metal of the receiver any stronger/stiffer and not have the stock screws strip out the material. The typical upgrades won't make the stock fit better to the action, it won't make the rails attached to the receiver straighter/flatter, it won't make the mag catch better, etc..... And upgrade parts might not fit a clone/cheap gun as they would a "good" gun for which they were designed.

To add to all that...you might very well get a "cheap" gun that's all ok...or you might get a crooked stick. "Cheap clones" tend to be hit and miss.

In the end...to each their own and good enough is sometimes good enough.

But that's why, IMO, it's generalized that starting with a clone base is not the best way to go if you're looking to end up with a "no compromise, best chance of success" bolt gun.

Getting a clone is fine if your buying a new receiver and barrel, because all the stock does is cradle it lol

Hmm, the last time I saw someone say they shot 400 ft, their gun was shooting 800fps+ and they only had a 2:3 hit ratio... You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play. The President will be wearing body armor, that means a head shot. You believe there's a shooter involved capable of making this shot?... oh wait... :D

If you're shooting 800fps with a .3, you're LOSING accuracy.
I've noticed even at 500fps, .3s don't perform as well as they do at 440fps.
Just like it's not recommended to use .25s above 350fps, .28s just do better.
But the opposite is also true, where heavier BB's don't do well at all in low FPS AEG's, like using a .3 in a 300fps gun, because there isn't enough initial pressure to get the BB spinning fast enough through the hopup.
You'd need a really heavy BB and really hard hop rubber at 800fps to get optimal spin, hell you might as well be using .22LR if your shooting 800.

@ krap101 I loved that movie :P but yeah im only shooting 400-500 fps. And i do understand that some clones just will always suck, my question was pointing more towards, why do they suck. I realize i got lucky and mine works very nicely. m102404 answered the question very well. Thank you :D

Your getting 400ft range out of 400-500fps gun? I never knew that's possible...wow

lol its not easy and as i said theres about a 2 foot variance, but it can be done ;)

Just cause your BB can reach that distance, doesnt mean you can hit a barn door at that range.

Very, very true.

My M110 is almost completely upgraded internally, with countless hours of time put into it. Its worth NEW over $1600 and is shooting right around 525 FPS. I use .4s in it, and it can reach out to ~400' MAX with the wind in my favor. Now thats how far it reaches out. I could MAYBE hit 1/5 shots at that range, and Id be lucky to do so. It can accurately hit about a 7/10 shots on a man sized target at ~350'. Thats OVER a 6' vertical spread and OVER a 1.5' horizontal spread! I highly doubt a chinese clone can make it out to 400' with a 2 foot spread which is almost equivilent to a chest size grouping. Thats completely unheard of...

well i guess i have the gun that is completely unheard of :D but now you've heard so its not special anymore :(

joking aside, i can hit much more that just a barn door and i too have put countless hours into precise tuning and adjusting.

i also never said that im hitting the target every time, i said there was approximately a 2 foot variance from my target.
Not 100% sure why my comment is getting so much attention as it seems that your gun has similar capabilities

Yes theres a 2' variance, but thats a chest size grouping at 400'. Yes my gun has SIMILAR capabilities, but your chinese clone shoots groupings that are 2/3 better than mine at 50' farther. It is also a chinese clone, and mine is an ares.

If we assume that on a perfect day with zero wind at 350' shooting at a 1' square, my gun will maybe hit about 1-3/5 shots. Yours will hit a guarenteed 3, but maybe 4-5/5 shots. I think thats about right, but lets say the target is a 6'x2' rectangle at 350'. My completely upgraded gun will hit about 7/10 shots. If you are aiming directly at the center every time, you will hit 10/10 shots due to the 2' spread (assuming in every direction).

you're ARES may not be a clone, but it's still chinese lol

Indeed, but more care went into making it than a BA clone gun.

This isnt an Epeen contest on whos rifle can do what.

Bottom line is, avoid clones/knockoffs etc as a base gun.
You might get lucky and get a perfect gun, but more often than less, you end up with poor tolerances, airseal issues etc.

You cant fix those kinds of issues with aftermarket parts. This means that you will likely end up spending 800$+ on internals and upgrades and still end up with airseal problems and misaligned parts.

End of Story.
That is the answer to the OP's question. If he chooses to heed the warning, then great, if not, then thats his problem.
/thread.

Right
1 out of a few chinese clones will be a good gun, you gotta get lucky
But you can take ANY marui VSR-10 and make it awesome