Agm m4 gbbr
 

Some of the information on this thread is from third party sources while other is from personal research.

I will add more to this thread as i find new things (still a LOT of parts coming in to try).

AATV Youtube Review:
YouTube - AATV Video Review: AGM M4 Gas Blowback

GasGuns.Info Review:
http://www.gasguns.info/?p=164

Known Problems:
Weak nozzle. Breaks after a couple hundred rounds.
Magazines (1st Gen) usually leak gas.
Weak hop up unit. Breaks after a couple hundred rounds.
Bolt catch is fiddly (some work, other don't work, especially 1st gen).
~400fps out of box, not gamable in most Canadian fields.

Solutions:
Multiple companies offer aftermarket parts for the AGM to make it a more reliable platform to game. Every month we see new companies/parts poping out on the market. Sources say the Chinese cloners are currently working on parts for a cheaper solution than Ra-Tech or G&P.

http://en.ratech.com.tw http://www.gp-web.com/en/index.php

Bolt Carriers:
The first thing to look at is the bolt carrier. Ra-Tech offers different solutions to make the AGM more gamable. Any of the options bellow will let you adjust the FPS of your AGM to make it gamable.

Options:

#1
RAG-AGM--001 (NPAS Tool Set) $60USD
http://en.ratech.com.tw/img/rag/rag-...wa_bolt020.jpg

#2
RAG-WA-bolt014 (Complete bolt solution, silver) $260USD
http://en.ratech.com.tw/img/rag/rag-...wa_bolt014.jpg

#3
RAG-WA-bolt-015 (Complete bolt solution, dim grey) $260USD
http://en.ratech.com.tw/img/rag/rag-...wa_bolt015.jpg

G&P has just came out with a NPAS style bolt carrier. It has not been tested AFAIK.

RedWolfCustoms also make a 'light' bolt carrier ($105-$115USD). Be warned it needs to be sanded/dremeled to work properly (toward the end of the bolt, its oblivious if you shoot it a couple times). Because of that, i do not recommend it as a drop in.

RWC Silver Bolt Carrier:
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=25954
RWC Matte Silver Bolt Carrier:
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=25629
RWC Black Bolt Carrier:
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=25628

You will need a nozzle:
Pro-Arms Hi-Power Loading Nozzle
http://airsoftglobal.com/images/mid/...P-CHB-AG-1.jpg


Hop Up/Tightbore:
The hop up is very weak, if a double feed occurs it will usually break the hop up or the nozle. G&P, Prime and Pro-Arms have you covered.

Options:

#1 G&P WA Hop Up + Tightbore (Any 1 of those) $67USD
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=26120
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=26119
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=26118
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=26117

#2 Prime Hop Up (You will need a tightbore) $74USD
Hop Up that takes any AEG tightbore
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=25781
Hope Up that takes WA tightbore
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=25780

#3
Pro-Arms Adjustable Hop Unit
+Guarder Hard Type Hop Bucking
+KM 6.04mm TN barrel for M4


Buffer + Buffer Spring
The AGM buffer/buffer spring is weak and isn't as smooth as it should. G&P and Ra-Tech have made drop in replacement.

G&P offers a couple different kits that are drop in and offer different recoil strength. Any of those fit drop in and work much better (even under water!).

G&P Silver Buffer + Buffer Spring (HHR) 'heavy recoil' $16USD
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/upgrade-p...m4-series.html
G&P Black Buffer + Buffer Spring 'normal recoil $16USD
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/upgrade-p...m4-series.html

Ra-Tech has their own WA style buffer/buffer spring, its a drop in:
#1
RAG-WA-stock-001 'Summer' $10USD

#2
RAG-WA-stock-002 'Winter' $10USD


MORE TO COME:
*Magazines
*Lower (G&P Anti-Rotation Links, G&P Steel Bolt Catch)
*RAS/RIS Compability
*Dimensions (flash hider threading, stock tube, threading sizes/direction, etc)

RESERVED

I will be adding a LOT more in the following days/weeks as parts start to come in, and when i find other information.

I accidentally sheared-off the fixed screw in the stock. I don't think I was being too abusive when I retracted it, but nonetheless it happened. A $2.00 part, no big deal.

http://www.rsov.com/images/product_images/prt_0183.jpg

First time i heard that, lol! Good thing with AGM is the parts are cheap :p

Just besure to note that the products made usually are meant for WA/WOC not AGM, some parts is not a direct drop in. Eg Stock tube, there's the WA/WOC/Prime/Firearms and there's the AGM unique, same with reciever there's couple of factions: WA & WOC, Prime, Inokatsu, AGM, King Arms. Not sure if Classic Army are unique or not.

Besides, it makes me wonder why people are still getting a AGM when JG has a better option with less problems. But for me I'd still vouch for a WOC (Recommand CQBR due to barrel length is all the same)as it gives 380 fps. If you want a more durable one, get Prime which means you have to build it ground up. And probably in the end for a really really abusivable you're gonna have to replace everything except the internal moving parts with firearms stuff.

JG copied WA and left a plastic body. Same problems as WA. With the AGM you already have a full metal base gun.

Theirs not much to do... get a AGM, buy a Pro-Arms nozzle and a Ra-Tech NPAS tool set, total is like $100 shipped to you and your AGM is fully gamable. If you want to spend a bit more, buy a G&P hop up + tightbore and your completely set for $500-$600 less than a WE, half the price than a Inokatsu.

But to each their own, its all about how much you want to spend. AGM just shows you do NOT need to spend +$1000 to get a gamable full metal GBBR.

True, I did a calc of DIY and build a G&P from scratch if I recall correct it goes to about $1200

haha same :p Wanted to see how much a GBBR would cost me if i bought parts left and right, it was easily over $1000 (with no mags/sights).

Ill keep you posted, Im building a prime one so it aint the cheapest I've estimated to be $1600 (w/ NPAS prime type bolt carrier, King Arms Piston system...lol I hate direct inpingment...

I'm building a G&P/Prime myself to compare to a modified AGM.

What parts are there for converting the m4 into the an m16, I know there is the 3 round trigger burst kit from ra tech but what about the front assembly and butstock?

For a M16A4 you would need to find a 20'' Front Kit, G&P makes a nice one, and a full stock. The stock may prove problematic as I'm told the AGM lowers have proprietary threading on the buffer tube, meaning most aftermarket tubes will not mount to the lower, preventing you from using current stock options.

Theirs a AGM M16 GBB now. Not sure if they are in Canada.

Tricky stuff i actualy wan't to make it somewhat of a kit that i exchange the barrel and stock for outdoor or indoor games m16 outdoor m4 indoor. might prove more difficult then i thought .
I haven't seen the agm m16 but i have seen the we m16a3 but haven't heard any talk anywhere about them mabey a page or to on the gasgun forums

There is? I've searched everywhere for a link/info...where did you find this?

Suppose to be, people are sayins there's a AGM-GBB-062 (RIS), AGM-GBB-063 (Normal), AGM-GBB-064 (CQB), AGM-GBB-065 (??M16??). It's on a couple forums. I even found chinese websites that sell AGM M16 parts (I found the M16 barrel, M16 flashhider, M16 RIS). I found everything except a full stock so far. So my guess is its coming out very soon if its not aleady out. Even on their AGM paper theirs a M16 version.

What site were the a2 parts listed on?

I think gunner airsoft or RSOV.

hey look on the bright side atleast you can make a C& design..G&P is really weird on me,
6 months ago I sent two request of stuff they should make include:
TRI-AD
Elcan C79
WA C7A2 recevier
Correct TA31 scope sights (they're using the ACOG sights not the TA31 type)

Only elcan was mentioned twice, few weeks ago they decide to show a read production of a Elcan (does not have marker nor the flat spot on left side normally for trade, better than elken I guess)

So keep an eye out spam G&P mail box maybe some day they'll do a full GBBR C7 kit

Triad's are prolly a No-Go. Everyone seems to hate them, and from what I've read/been told by shooters they are for the fail. Besides, after some recent internal changes I wouldn't be suprised to see more KAC kit on CF bits.

don't expect to,

Can someone answer these questions?

For a GBBR why is everyone comparing against WA knowing it is probably a slam dunk win?

Why are you comparing a airsoft gun that is bind up with restriction and expect it to work even though its is against the law for the country which is produce in?

Although people keep comparing WA saying its official version, why aren't people comparing to its export version which is design to use propane? (G&P WOC Western Arms Official Custom)

WA is the base of GBBR, like TM is for AEG.

Sure its not much to compare too, but its a 'starting point'. G&P is the same as WA, sure it might have some better material used here and there, but its basically a WA full metal.

Also WA GBBR design is the universally accept design, and thats why 85% of the market is oriented toward it. What fits WA fits AGM and fits G&P (95% of the time).

Some WE stuff is available but its poor compared to the WA GBB market. But the WE design is also new, so give it time.

Edit: Also kull, when people talk about 'how is the WE compared to the WA' they can also meant the GBB system they each use and not just the general built of the GBBR.

I'll note here that the stock tube on my AGM M4 RIS version is 1.14", considered Mil-Spec if you're putting on a real steel stock.

Jeff

Is it a Gen 1 or Gen 2? My Gen 2 takes milspec stock and certain chinese stocks. G&P 'WA" stock work fine also.

How can I tell?

Is it the one that came with your AGM? If so, does the top of the box have somekind of big white logo toward the left? if so, thats Gen 1.

The box doesn't have any logos on the left side :).

I just swapped flash hiders, and the AGM barrel is -14mm.

Chrono'd at 400-415fps this morning. Yikes!

Jeff

Yes it shoots hard :D

I'm waiting on some ra-tech parts to tune it down lol

Please understand that this is my own opinion and should not be taken as any sort of "final word" on the AGM M4 GBBR. I'm sure there are guys that see this as a cost affordable entryway into GBBR's. I do not feel that I'm "spoiled" by good guns and my expectations were not mis-aligned for this one. I feel that I am calling it like it is.

I posted this to another thread. Note: after sleeping on it for a night...I've decided against spending another minute/dollar on this rifle.

I am actually quite pleased with mine. I did use it as an entry level to a GBBR. I've dry fired it probably 1000 times, and put about 200 rds through it, with no issues at all. The magazine leaked out of the box, but all it took was some silicone oil to get it working mint. I've spent another $5-600 on upgrades already... but not because I had to.

Mine is tight, solid, and feels great. I fear these may just be hit or miss with the quality. Lucky for me, mine is pretty darn good for what I paid for the thing.

Jeff

i just broke my agm stock tube. it broke in the thread
the only replacement AGM stock stube is gunner but they are actually out of stock and they dont ship to canada.
all other replacement stock tube dont fit AGM. Do you why? it is the thread or the diameter?

Thats ok, you probably got a lemon. I'm at my second AGM (using one for testing new parts), both are working great, zero wobble (actually tighter tolerence than any TM/CA iv seen/own/handle), good finish and good performance.

I spent $400 and $500 on each then another $200 on 'needed' upgrades and the rest is pure cosmetics. Beats G&P/WA/WE by a handful at price. Once upgraded, i see zero difference except the lack of trades.

You aren't the first that happen. The Gen1 buffer tube is weak. How did you break it?

Look on the internet AGM/Bomber/China sell replacement buffer tubes, they cost like $15 LOL

Those guys get stuff in/out weekly, ring them:
http://www.gunnerairsoft.com/catalog...oducts_id=1743

The threads are different, you can rethread to make it fit, couple people are doing that to G&P buffer tubes.

I'm $920 in to mine. Still works great with all the stock parts however :D.

A warning, I have five 5KU mags that all leak out of the box. Going to try and fix them, but be wary about buying these mags.

Jeff

I have a LOT of customers coming to me looking for replacement bolts for their AGM M4's. The stock bolts are utter CRAP, and break extremely easily.

What's worse, is that the bolt carrier is not to WA spec, so if you wanted to replace the bolt with a WA/G&P/Inokatsu/RA-Tech compatible unit, you would also have to buy the bolt carrier - in effect, you must replace it with a complete bolt assembly.

As an FYI, the complete bolt assemblies cost just a bit over $280 at the current exchange rate through my RA-Tech preorders. Taxes must also be factored in to that price, but it works out to cheaper than ordering through RA-Tech on your own. I run these orders regularly, and can get you complete internal replacements to fix up the AGM.

The RA-Tech "Magic Pin" should also be sufficient in tightening up wobble between the upper receiver and the lower.

I have an idea for the leaky mags problem. Once I get mine, I will test it out. I might buy a leaky mag to test out my idea, as I think it may be a rather permanent and simple fix..

You don't need to replace the bolt, just buy one of the third party nozzle. If you want the ra-tech nozzle/flute i am told by ra-tech that it should fit the AGM bolt but they recommend their entire bolt carrier system.

The chinese one is coming next month, a copy of the ra-tech one at probably half the price.

NEVER buy the magic pin, iv seen lowers break (G&P, WA and AMG) from it. I haven't seen any AGM that have any wobble, its built strong. Heck theirs less space between the upper/lower than a PTW lol

where did you get the information? a chinese NPAS?

From the Chinese God :)

And yes a chinese npas.

Cool huh? :D

I got handed one of these today.....complete and utter peice of garbage. I'll trade you a peice of my poo (apx 4cmx8cm) for yours. That is my only and final offer. (shipping extra)

Do try to keep this clean people. Go play in the trash bin unless you provide valid information.

Responding to PM's, if you haven't had an answer it's because i'm looking for the answer :D

well right now there isn't really much choice, you could just a JDT BCG and if you're a tool expert shave off steel like the prime one to make it closer to 250g ish instead of 340g.
WA is 225g
RA-Tech is 240g


oh btw, I wouldn't trust Chinese NPAS, seeing how RA-tech isn't doing that good I could assume its worse.

Why isn't the ra-tech one not doing good? I have read only positive reviews of it, not a single bad one from users using it on WA/AGM/G&P.

Uhh... The flute valve breaks @ about 5 adjustments?
the NPAS will self reduce fps (not enough friction)
the plastic nozzle has a life of 500rounds
the plastic nozzle head found on NPAS set will break

Never heard of a broken flute, its made of CNC airplane grade alu....
Their has been ONE report of a problematic flute valve that was changing fps after a dozen mags. Ra-tech changed his flute valve and that user didn't report of any other problem. I was able to fiddle with one + talk to ra-tech about it, and honestly i do see it self adjust after 2-3 games, so just re-adjust it and you are set for another 2-3 games. Theirs even a locktite made for problems like that.
Use the alu nozzle.
Use the alu nozzle.

Dude, how many rounds have you go through your CCC? I broke 3 out of 5k, there's people break more than that. Look at the part, no matter how strong it is, the joint makes it weak, I don't care how much you quinch that steel (hypathateically made of steel) its still gonna to get through the bending. As for Aluminium nozzle, Gen1 gives really slow FPS, like an AK. Gen2 is just out and problems have not surface, (Im receiving gen2 btw)

Man I love playing Devil's Advocate.

So your saying all those positive reviews are fake/bs???

Iv shot 300 rounds through the regular nozzle with propane, still no issues. Ra-Tech plastic nozzle is better so it should last over 300 rounds. Their alu one has reports of thousands of rounds, with no issues.
I haven't bought the ra-tech bolt carrier, waiting for the chinese one. But i know a handfull of Canadian users, no issues with them (fitted on WA/AGM/G&P).

Unless yours personally failed over and over, i wouldn't give much thought about the handfull of negative reviews over the hundred+ positive reviews...

Keep us updated with the gen2 nozzle please :)

Umm have you heard about the Gungas forum? just post and ask how many people broke their flute valve, and btw its 500 rounds, unless I misput it, people say expected life for a plastic one is 700 with lowest commonly at 500. Also the aluminium nozzle is not fault at the nozzle it self but the nozzle head, it is supplied with a plastic one, and those thing does snap, just like mine and about a dozen of others. No offense, I just can't stand people destroying innovation with clones, especially low quality goods. RA-Tech is even questioning on whether they should go forth with a GHK mod co2mag after recent news of alpha test clone of RA-Tech Burst Kit cloned by JDT with factories in China.

I'm actually grateful for clones, like that ra-tech won't monopolize their market with their $275USD bolt carrier.

Competition brings better prices.

And leads to company refuse to make new stuff like how RA-Tech is currently questioning whether they will continue to do new products, also it would keep their prices high as their investment would lead to less customers.

Honestly, do you think its fair if you created a cure to cancer only I copied it and sell it for 1/10 of the price despite the fact it would often not work? Oh and ofcourse you patent that but I still copied it. Competition brings better product, Cloning brings better price.

Welcome to China.

Ronan, your backing these crappy
AGM's like some used to back the
crappy WE pistols when they first
hit the scene. Same hit and miss
rep, same poor QC, etc etc..

Let time do the deciding. If people
spent more time using the GBBR's
rather than dumping in 1k worth of
parts we'd know all the pros & cons
by now. But as a casual reader, I
wouldn't touch one of these for any
price. Breaking the nozzle after 300—
500 rds? LOL that's a joke. If a pistol
or an AEG was that unreliable they'd
be out of business in a hurry.

I now return you to the regularly
scheduled debate.

Can anyone direct me to the possible options I would have to convert a AGM M4 to a full length 20" barreled one in a M16A4 (sans the 3 round burst) type configuration? Anyone besides WA and GP make a full length outer barrel for em?

Inokatsu does as well

Well what I meant was someone cheaper, but you are correct.

I'm backing them up because i own them and actually use them, unlike 90% of the people spitting crap at something they only saw on google image or youtube or heard from a friend that knows someone that plays with someone.

You are another one of those people that throw crap. Your reason: Because they need to be upgraded. News flash, most AEG NEED to be upgraded or else they are crap.

I'll say it again, i have yet seen a upgraded AGM M4 GBB fail dramatically.

I bet if it said TM on the package, everyone would shut up pretty quickly.
And if it said PTW, everyone would say... well we already have threads full of that.

Get off your high horses people.

If your definition of failling drmactically excludes:
*Bolt Catch does not lock back every time at stock
*Magazine Included will leak within 200 rounds (and not getting better by it self)
*Nozzle and bolt carrier will break <500 rounds

Honestly, a good GBBR aint gonna be cheap, I can get a GBBR better than WOC for $1200 and a WOC sells at $1400. Toss in another $250 I can get a setup with RA-Tech NPAS BCG.
FYI if anyone needs to know the list Im working on a post for that.

Kull, a stock agm has issues, like a lot of stock aeg. I think we can all agree on that.

ALL the issues you mention are 100% fixable with upgrades. HECK my gen2 AGM does not have the bolt catch issue (and iv shot a couple hundred rounds already). The magazine are problematic, but theirs a fix for that (and a cheap one at that). Bolt carrier/nozzle is crappy, ra-tech fixed that, RWC has a fix for that, pro-arms has a fix for that, and the chinese npas will be another fix.

Honestly mate, all your issues have well known fix for them. If you want something 100% perfect out of the box, you have to make it yourself (which you are apparently). So... whats wrong? :D

I hate to thread jack here

But I like this paradox going on

Before Ronan use talk big about his Systema and its awesomeness but now he has opted for a GBB-R brand that some people hesistate about and is now the brand defender of that.

And then

Kullwarrior, haven't seen his post until this year and he's now talking big about GBB-R brands that are the best (Yes I know Magna and WA are wonderful so no need to go in detail about it)

I can predict 3 years or maybe 2, the arguments about what the best AEG brand will probably be minimal or cease to exist and then people will be talking all about what GBB-R brands and which one works out of the box. And then there will be Elitist GBB-R brand guys who feel the need to be the Defender of the brand.

Times are interesting for sure

Back on topic
Along the lines of this review I would say good job for consolidating all the information that would be needed for those who like to tinker and what parts may be needed.

Aside from the Brand Defender argument, I would say good review.

Thanks, a lot more to come, but still waiting on stuff to arrive. I think CBSA is playing with my parts :D

I love PTW's, they are a thing of wonder. I never defended them because it said 'Systema PTW' on the case, but because of what they can do. For me to defend AGM is for good reasons, but some people can't read past the label. Which is fine, i just wish they would keep it to themselves and keep this thread clean for people who WANT to know to not have to read through their bs.

Now, I know i've seen the solution before somewhere. I'm playing around with the AGM/RA-TECH/Element parts I have here. I've installed the Element High Power Loading Nozzle into my RA-Tech bolt carrier. When Its together, I insert a mag, pull the trigger, and all the gas just shoots out the barrel. Looks pretty cool mind you, but I'd like the gun to work. What did I do wrong?

Jeff

Element nozzle are main O-Ring are off spec. You need a bigger O-Ring. If ind P14 o-ring are suitable for RA-Techs but not imperial ones is better, Im too lazy to dig up the spec if you want pm me. Remember if there's too much space between the inner BCG and O-Ring seal wont be effective and it will just burst out. Another thing is that its misaligned. I know Element spec aint that great, I got 4 (it was cheaper than purchasing new shells and O-Rings at the time)

As for replying to about AGM, another problem is the spec and QC, I know stock tube isnt really smooth as it should be so yea.
as far as right now, Im taking a break on GBBR, (just sold all my mags to fund my ptw, usp, and school)
Ying

Now, there were two little orings with the Element kit that were not on my AGM nozzle when I took it apart... or were they supposed to be there?

Jeff

I just got an AGM M4 GBB in a trade and I am not at all familiar with GBBR's

I am more an AEG person but decided to go for this to try it out...


here is what is has in it so far

NPAS is in the nozzle, and that's new.
It works fine with the system, but you have to use a screwdriver to adjust it.

The charging handle was dremmeled to make it fit, but it's prime, and works fine by the prev owner...




It Needs a Hammer... (original Broke)
I was thinking of this one from Ehobby

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/5ku-steel...m4-series.html

or

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/element-s...m4-series.html



I am also looking for a new stock pipe for this one
here is what I was thinking of
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/5ku-wa-6-...m4-series.html



I have also heard that the Hop should be changed so I was looking at this one

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ra-tech-c...m4-series.html



question is will all these parts work good or can you recommend other parts if these will not work...

the stock I was thinking about using was from an old AEG that I had. it does not house a battery in the stock so is very solid will it work over the pipe I was looking at...


I was also looking at this part for the Recoil spring

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/action-en...fc-m4-gbb.html





anywho I am looking to upgrade to make this a truly viable gun...

I read this thread and all seems good but my big question is

if looking at Ehobby if it will fit the WA will it fit this gun...

anyone have additional parts lists that work with this gun


thanks much