Quote:
Originally Posted by turok_t
It might be a "useless" suggestion for you, but it might be helpful for others who have a short stroking setup or have a nozzle thats very sticky with the hop up. I currently use a stronger spring and I experienced NO loss in FPS or gas efficiency. I can shoot between 45-50 rounds per filled magazine.
Well obviosuly the nozzle being stuck "in battery" is normal, no one has refute this concept. This is required for the next round to chamber. In fact, the purpose I use a stronger nozzle return spring is to assist the RETURN of the nozzle spring back to battery faster during the blowback cycle. StrikeFreedom did not comment on nozzle being stuck "in battery" is normal. He only indicated how the magazine pushes up the air nozzle to facilitate its seal with the hop up. He noted that it is a "bonus" because it helps to form a better air seal, he did not mention how the nozzle being stuck "in battery" in normal operation.
How will additional energy be required? Before the gun is fired, the air nozzle sits snuggly within the hop up chamber. The air nozzle spring, regardless of its strength, does not do anything at this point since it is not compressed. Moreover, the air nozzle spring does not affect the "friction holding between the hop bucking and nozzle". When the gun is fired, all the gas is initially directed forward to propel the bb which is independent on the nozzle return spring. Only once when the floating valve shuts, does the gas direct backwards to the rear of the air nozzle pushing the slide backwards. At this point NO gas is directed forward since the floating valve is shut. The blowback (i.e. slide moving rearwards) continues regardless of the air nozzle spring. The air nozzle spring only helps to return the air nozzle to battery.
Not true. If your nozzle is very sticky, like the SD POM I had, it will NOT return back to its original position. For people who short stroked their gun and if the nozzle is also sticky (possible cause can be swelling of the hop up), the nozzle may also not return to battery or as you suggested in its "original position."
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Never thought about short stroking the guns. I apologise for that, although I would've appreciated it if you wrote it into your previous post
I said that the 'sticking' of the nozzle is normal since my stock MEU did the same thing with an empty or filled mag, due to the pressure exerted by either the feed guide on the mag or the bbs at the mag lips. Even with the hop turned off the nozzle would stick as long as I had a mag in.
I understand the theory behind the first part where the bb is being propelled. No loss of FPS there since the nozzle return spring doesn't do anything like you said. But since you're working against the spring when the floating valve shuts, and if you have a stronger return spring in the BBU, then more energy is required to compress the return spring as this is the second part of the pistol's operation. The gas in the mag is the energy source for the blow back, so more gas would be needed to compress the stronger return spring as the nozzle should be right above the mag until the return spring is fully compressed.
EDIT: yikes, nearly forgot to mention this....you said there's no loss of gas efficiency. But I believe there IS a loss, just not significant enough for you to be able to notice it. More energy will be required to work against a stronger return spring, hence more energy is required from the gas used for the blowback. But given that the energy required to compress a stronger return spring may be so little compared to the energy output from the mag, the gas lost for the extra energy to compress the spring is negligible, which basically makes my previous post irrelevant in the practical situation. Still, I'm standing by the fact that there IS a decrease in gas efficiency, no matter how small it is. :P
I don't think the SD nozzle is 'sticky'. I believe that the SD nozzle's inner diameter is actually smaller than the stock TM nozzle, hence there is more friction between the piston lip/o-ring than if you were to use the stock nozzle. There's a larger, noticable gap between the stock piston lip and the stock nozzle compared with the smaller gap between the SD nozzle and the stock piston lip.
Anyway, I think I came off a bit too aggressive when I said 'useless' because I never thought about short stroking, so I apologise again. I guess it's because many of you are IPSC players and the faster you can shoot the gun the better? I'm only into skirmishing atm so short stroking never occured to me as something I'd do to my gun.