Improving accuracy?

[Kid]

Originally Posted by RC Collins

Ok, I guess I'm going for the Systema 6.04.... has anyone here installed a barrel? Is it hard to do?, or should I leave it to a airsmith / gunsmith?

It's a quick job that takes no time at all. Definately something you can and should do.

I've done it for a few of my guns and it only takes about 5-10 minutes to accomplish. It's hassle free, too.

[Jackals]

DO not for for the love of god get a promothesus 6.03, they have a nasty habit in jamming in my opinion. 6.04 are ok, but like stalker said, make sure you clean well and often.

[Kid]

Originally Posted by Jackals

DO not for for the love of god get a promothesus 6.03, they have a nasty habit in jamming in my opinion. 6.04 are ok, but like stalker said, make sure you clean well and often.

I use KSC and I've never had a jam. What kind of BBs are you using? Guarder? They ARE 6.03.

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by Jackals

DO not for for the love of god get a promothesus 6.03, they have a nasty habit in jamming in my opinion. 6.04 are ok, but like stalker said, make sure you clean well and often.

Sounds like you have been listening to Apoc. He & I have gotten into heated discussions that all the problems you guys are having with your guns is because you installed a tightbore barrel, even if it weas something in the mechbox that fragged itself. If you do a search on the entire ASC site about tightbores jamming, you will find less than a dozen posts that have those words in it, and all of them speak of the reputation, not of fact (ok, maybe one in what, 5-6 years that ASC has been around?).

I even asked Vondnik about it, he said as long as good ammo is used and the barrel is cleaned once in a while, no jamming occurs. Yet he uses 6.04mm for his AEGs and 6.03mm for his single shot dedicated guns.

BTW, Greg, the thing that makes my info important is because I use a 6.03mm barrel in my M24, and a 6.05mm barrel in my M700. I'm also shooting 1/2" groups at 30ft, and can get BBs through doorways 200+ft away most of the time. An AEG is different, 3" groups satify most at short range, etc. COnsidering that evern with good ammo (roughly 5.93-5.95mm per BB vs. 6.03mm tightbore.........) leaves a 0.10-0.08mm gap between the BB and the inner barrel wall, it's not likely jams will occur unless using REALLY bad ammo. For my M24, no matter what I shoot through it, it comes out the nasty end very nicely. All of the problems I've diagnosed with you guys that have tightbores in your AEGs, I can't confirm a single one to be the result of the 6.03mm tightbore you had me install.

Draw your own conclusions.

***For the thread poster, I'll say this: My MP5 has a stock TM barrel in it, shoots around 360fps, has a clear Guarder hop up sleeve & bucking (50%) installed, and I can get consistant high round (like a full lo-cap) groups in a 2" circle at 30ft unsupported with a couple flyers. Your accuracy isn't that great compared to some guns, but I can say that it's better than I've seen out of a "stock" (430fps) G&P SPR shot on the same range, that gun would be lucky to get CD sized groups at that distance! Of course, 20-30ft distance does mean much in the way of field guns. Gives you a rough idea though. Using 0.25g BBs will increase your accuracy by a lot, more so at longer ranges than 0.20g BBs will.

[RC Collins]

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

Sounds like you have been listening to Apoc. He & I have gotten into heated discussions that all the problems you guys are having with your guns is because you installed a tightbore barrel, even if it weas something in the mechbox that fragged itself. If you do a search on the entire ASC site about tightbores jamming, you will find less than a dozen posts that have those words in it, and all of them speak of the reputation, not of fact (ok, maybe one in what, 5-6 years that ASC has been around?).

I even asked Vondnik about it, he said as long as good ammo is used and the barrel is cleaned once in a while, no jamming occurs. Yet he uses 6.04mm for his AEGs and 6.03mm for his single shot dedicated guns.

BTW, Greg, the thing that makes my info important is because I use a 6.03mm barrel in my M24, and a 6.05mm barrel in my M700. I'm also shooting 1/2" groups at 30ft, and can get BBs through doorways 200+ft away most of the time. An AEG is different, 3" groups satify most at short range, etc. COnsidering that evern with good ammo (roughly 5.93-5.95mm per BB vs. 6.03mm tightbore.........) leaves a 0.10-0.08mm gap between the BB and the inner barrel wall, it's not likely jams will occur unless using REALLY bad ammo. For my M24, no matter what I shoot through it, it comes out the nasty end very nicely. All of the problems I've diagnosed with you guys that have tightbores in your AEGs, I can't confirm a single one to be the result of the 6.03mm tightbore you had me install.

Draw your own conclusions.

***For the thread poster, I'll say this: My MP5 has a stock TM barrel in it, shoots around 360fps, has a clear Guarder hop up sleeve & bucking (50%) installed, and I can get consistant high round (like a full lo-cap) groups in a 2" circle at 30ft unsupported with a couple flyers. Your accuracy isn't that great compared to some guns, but I can say that it's better than I've seen out of a "stock" (430fps) G&P SPR shot on the same range, that gun would be lucky to get CD sized groups at that distance! Of course, 20-30ft distance does mean much in the way of field guns. Gives you a rough idea though. Using 0.25g BBs will increase your accuracy by a lot, more so at longer ranges than 0.20g BBs will.

Thanks for the info... I am using 0.25g BBs, the good ones (made by Airsoft Elite). If it is not that difficult to install (otherwise I have to drive 7 hours or ship it to get installed), I'm putting in my order for a 6.04. I really want good accuracy. It's funny because I played paintball for years, and I had a barrel kit- the barrel had two parts- front and back, and you matched whatever brand paint you were using, to the various front barrel sections you had, and it gave you super good accuracy. I thought an Airsoft gun would shoot as accurate as a real gun out of the box. I spent $300 for that barrel kit, and now I'm doing the same thing in Airsoft... but at least it's only around $100!. Anyway as it is right now, if I were to shoot at an actual cd from 20 ft away, I'd hit the edges of it at best, missing a few times... unless I watched the shots like a tracer, then I could adjust and get them on target, however I don't want to do that, I want to nail it dead center first shot!
:salute:

[CDN_Stalker]

Keep in mind the best you'll get for consistant accuracy at 20ft is within an inch or so. Don't expect to be able to dump 20 shots into a single 6mm hole, even at 20 or 10ft, you won't get it. Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you are using expensive match grade ammo in your AEG, the BBs will STILL go where they want to. AEGs are like that, you can get superb accuracy all the time like real steel. Under the same conditions every time with my M700 (dry swab the barrel, fill mag with propane, fire 4 dry fire shots to even the presssure out, load with 0.29g Super Grand Master BBs........... about $25 for 500.........) I can get all 10 shots onto paper at 30ft, and make a hole the size of a dime.

A tightbore isn't going to solve all your problems though. It'll help tighten your groups up a bit, good hop up unit and rubber will help as well. I find it really odd that your gun is so in accurate though. I mean, not being able to get all shots onto a CD at 20ft? Something is really wrong there. My Glock 19 gets tighter groups than that at 30ft. And it shouldn't be more accurate than an AEG.

Hop up: Should be easy enough for you to do yoruself, just have to pay attention. Not sure how different AKs are from other guns as far as hop up unit goes. There's a half circle clip on the front part that holds the barrel in the hop up. Pop that off, gently twist the barrel and hope the rubber sleeve comes out nicely. Keep in mind there that little 'packing' (little rubber cylinder, about 1/8" long) inside the hop up unit. Tap the unit on a table with full hop up set, it should fall out. Take the new packing, hold the unit upside down, roll the packing in there, and with a small screwdriver poking in form the opposite side, position the packing sideways and into the square hole. Once in there, move the hop up adjust up & down, make sure that packing move up and down also. Put the sleeve over your barrel, inside nub into the barrel's square hole, put a thin layer of silocon oil on the outside of the sleeve, and holding the hop up unit upside down (hop up full off), slide the barrel and sleeve into the hop up unit. Once it's in there, look down the barrel and point the other end at a white wall, move the hop up to full and back again and see if you are getting the rubber into the barrel nicely. Once done, put that semi circular clip back on, then reinstall into your gun.

[DonP]

I would add that a physically solid gun will help.

Shaving 0.2mm off your inner barrel diameter won't help you much if the goddamned piece itself has 0.5-1.0mm of play in how it seats.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by DonP

I would add that a physically solid gun will help.

Shaving 0.2mm off your inner barrel diameter won't help you much if the goddamned piece itself has 0.5-1.0mm of play in how it seats.

Seconded, first thing I did when I got my CA36 was to check for inner barrel wobble. I was inspired to do that after reading about how even TM designs like the G3SG1 had a rather loosely seated inner barrel.

[CDN_Stalker]

Generally AEG barrels are only held solid at the hop up unit. Good point to bring up guys! Am sure O-Rings would help improve things rather nicely. Hey, if out of a 100% increase in accuracy of a KSC Glock comes from adding a larger and thicker O-ring to the inner barrel, and 25% comes from installing a tightbore...........................

[Greylocks]

You got me curious.

Would the concept of a free floating barrel (applies to firearms) work with airsoft? Has it been tried?

This may belong best in a thread of it's own to be explored further (and in the Upgrades/Mods section entirely).

[RC Collins]

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

Keep in mind the best you'll get for consistant accuracy at 20ft is within an inch or so. Don't expect to be able to dump 20 shots into a single 6mm hole, even at 20 or 10ft, you won't get it. Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you are using expensive match grade ammo in your AEG, the BBs will STILL go where they want to. AEGs are like that, you can get superb accuracy all the time like real steel. Under the same conditions every time with my M700 (dry swab the barrel, fill mag with propane, fire 4 dry fire shots to even the presssure out, load with 0.29g Super Grand Master BBs........... about $25 for 500.........) I can get all 10 shots onto paper at 30ft, and make a hole the size of a dime.

A tightbore isn't going to solve all your problems though. It'll help tighten your groups up a bit, good hop up unit and rubber will help as well. I find it really odd that your gun is so in accurate though. I mean, not being able to get all shots onto a CD at 20ft? Something is really wrong there. My Glock 19 gets tighter groups than that at 30ft. And it shouldn't be more accurate than an AEG.

Hop up: Should be easy enough for you to do yoruself, just have to pay attention. Not sure how different AKs are from other guns as far as hop up unit goes. There's a half circle clip on the front part that holds the barrel in the hop up. Pop that off, gently twist the barrel and hope the rubber sleeve comes out nicely. Keep in mind there that little 'packing' (little rubber cylinder, about 1/8" long) inside the hop up unit. Tap the unit on a table with full hop up set, it should fall out. Take the new packing, hold the unit upside down, roll the packing in there, and with a small screwdriver poking in form the opposite side, position the packing sideways and into the square hole. Once in there, move the hop up adjust up & down, make sure that packing move up and down also. Put the sleeve over your barrel, inside nub into the barrel's square hole, put a thin layer of silocon oil on the outside of the sleeve, and holding the hop up unit upside down (hop up full off), slide the barrel and sleeve into the hop up unit. Once it's in there, look down the barrel and point the other end at a white wall, move the hop up to full and back again and see if you are getting the rubber into the barrel nicely. Once done, put that semi circular clip back on, then reinstall into your gun.

Yeah I don't know what is going on with this damn thing. I just took 30 shots at a Tokyo Marui target (the ones you get with a new AEG- hint- photo copy these) and I shot at exactly 20 ft again, indoors, and got about 15 shots within the right side outer 3 rings. The group is fairly tight, but they always pull to the right, I'm aiming for the center, and every time, they hit 1 to 1 1/2 inches to the right.
When I got this gun and had it upgraded, the little cap that covers the screw on the fire select switch would not go back on. I pounded on that thing with a hammer (covered by a towel), for quite a long time. It would not go back on, so I just left it off. Could all that pounding on the side of the gun (but it's not like I was pounding THAT hard) actually throw off the accuracy of it, as hitting it on that side WOULD cause the barrel to shift to the right? I'm probably wrong but it's the only thing I can think of at this point. If so, a tight bore barrel might tighten groups, however it would still pull to the right... right?

:???:

[Digital_Assasin]

adjust your sights

[RC Collins]

Originally Posted by Digital_Assasin

adjust your sights

I did, I raise / lower both the front and rear site. Doesn't make a difference. I can shoot from the hip at 4 feet away, and still my shots will be off. Unless there is some way of adjusting my sights that I don't know about...? Anyway I'm certain the problem is internal.

[Kid]

Originally Posted by RC Collins

I did, I raise / lower both the front and rear site. Doesn't make a difference. I can shoot from the hip at 4 feet away, and still my shots will be off. Unless there is some way of adjusting my sights that I don't know about...? Anyway I'm certain the problem is internal.

Shooting from the hip doesn't give you any idea of how accurate your gun is. It's all in your mind.... I tried it.

Clean the barrel and check the hop-up, it sounds normal, but maintence like that is always good.

[RC Collins]

Originally Posted by Kid

Shooting from the hip doesn't give you any idea of how accurate your gun is. It's all in your mind.... I tried it.

Clean the barrel and check the hop-up, it sounds normal, but maintence like that is always good.

Ok I'll do that, even though the gun is brand new. Also... how exactly do I check the hop-up? what do I look for? sorry to sound like a dumbass. :salute: