Legal question

[Billybob]

I have read the FAQ and other legal posts but I would like to know:

Is it legal to import an AIRSOFT gun that fires between 407 and 500 FPS or not? what are the rules about this?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Billybob

I have read the FAQ and other legal posts but I would like to know:

Is it legal to import an AIRSOFT gun that fires between 407 and 500 FPS or not? what are the rules about this?

Technically such a item is an uncontroled firearm (not a replica) that is legal to import without a license. However CBSA will still call it a replica and stop it from coming in.. This has been proven by testing.

Yes.. they don't follow thier own rules.. but they don't care

[Outcast569]

So for the sake of argument you could appeal it and get your gun following much anger and pain threw them.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Outcast569

So for the sake of argument you could appeal it and get your gun following much anger and pain threw them.

Sure, but the responsibility to prove it is on you. You'd be looking at 6 months to over 2 years to get it tested etc etc, and you would end up spending more than you ever saved by ordering from outside of Canada. And you could still lose.

[Danke]

What particular type of hypothetical item is this?

Here check out how some real folks stacked up with their appeals.

http://www.citt.gc.ca/appeals/decision/ap2g052_e.asp

http://www.citt.gc.ca/appeals/decision/ap2a014_e.asp

ftp://ftp.citt-tcce.gc.ca/doc/englis.../ap2h004_e.pdf

ftp://ftp.citt-tcce.gc.ca/doc/englis.../ap2g012_e.pdf

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

Sure, but the responsibility to prove it is on you. You'd be looking at 6 months to over 2 years to get it tested etc etc, and you would end up spending more than you ever saved by ordering from outside of Canada. And you could still lose.

Unless you're a lawyer and want to flex your muscles as well as hating CBSA that much don't bother...
What this does help is if you transport the airsoft in the fps between two you can get away with it incase a law enforcement wants it.

[Kit]

you cant order any airsoft gun that's not in Canada customs will take it and confiscate it.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Kit

you cant order any airsoft gun that's not in Canada customs will take it and confiscate it.

Yes you can, its complicated thats why, but its possible. Both BFL as well as clear reciever currently has proven you could import it. But for a new player yes don't order outside of Canada.

Originally Posted by Danke

What particular type of hypothetical item is this?

Here check out how some real folks stacked up with their appeals.

http://www.citt.gc.ca/appeals/decision/ap2g052_e.asp

http://www.citt.gc.ca/appeals/decision/ap2a014_e.asp

ftp://ftp.citt-tcce.gc.ca/doc/englis.../ap2h004_e.pdf

ftp://ftp.citt-tcce.gc.ca/doc/englis.../ap2g012_e.pdf

Note: if you read all the arguements for CBSA is that the velocity of the projectile of pistol/ rifle is below 124meters per seconds and thus considered as a replica as opposed to firearms. One new one I found (yes I read about 17 cases of them when I first started) was the arguement where between 250-350fps is sufficient to be deadly since it could cause blindness (contradicts the RCMP's finding of the deadly velocity)
In simply put based on the appeals technically you could win IF the following were followed:
*Velocity of the airsoft gun is: 130m/s (.2g) or 124m/s (.22g aka the RCMP finding)
*It is not considered as a variant of the prohibition or restricted orders (M4/M16, AK, SPAS, AUG, M3, G3, MP5 all the goodies made between 1947-1980s)
*It is SEMI AUTOMATIC (why? because one could argue that since its a firearm, a fully automatic capability is considered part of the prohibition order)
*The barrel length (Im guess outer barrel) and the overall length (after stuff retracted/ fold eg, stock) is followed.


So in simply put what can really stand a chance? Probably Airsoft Sniper Rifle (oxymoron I know)

Would I go through the hassles? No why? because Im not angry at the CBSA, I'm angry at the Order in Council (the ones made airsoft prohibited in the first place) as well as Liberal party who created the order in Council. Second, the lawyer fees would be pointless. True if you're a retailer and want to get stuff in perhaps you might want to do it, but I would watch the court scene with popcorns.

[Mudder]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

Would I go through the hassles? No why? because Im not angry at the CBSA, I'm angry at the Order in Council (the ones made airsoft prohibited in the first place) as well as Liberal party who created the order in Council. Second, the lawyer fees would be pointless. True if you're a retailer and want to get stuff in perhaps you might want to do it, but I would watch the court scene with popcorns.

OK Kull,

The crux of these judgments going against the appellant lies in the "replica" portion of the tariff code it seems.
Now I've found a local source of all black cheap springers locally in-country, not the models I'm interested in but for LARP/cosplay they'll do. Though there is one shotty that may be passable for field play as it resembles a clearsoft item sold by one of the retailers you love to hate.

Now before you jump all over me, please download the .pdf of Beretta's RX4 and CX4 user manuals because this that I would like to add as a wallhanger resembles neither the CX4 or RX4.
http://www.rsov.com/index.php?target...roduct_id=1947
Take a look at the upper right corner of the box.....that's the same brand logo of an MP7[my least favourite collectible] that I obtained locally.

I just want opinions on the odds, I'm not going to try, at least until AFTER I get my NEXUS or passport, not put-downs or admonitions, just opinions.

Or stick to what's already in-country.....including a desert eagle model I saw.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Mudder

OK Kull,

The crux of these judgments going against the appellant lies in the "replica" portion of the tariff code it seems.
Now I've found a local source of all black cheap springers locally in-country, not the models I'm interested in but for LARP/cosplay they'll do. Though there is one shotty that may be passable for field play as it resembles a clearsoft item sold by one of the retailers you love to hate.

Now before you jump all over me, please download the .pdf of Beretta's RX4 and CX4 user manuals because this that I would like to add as a wallhanger resembles neither the CX4 or RX4.
http://www.rsov.com/index.php?target...roduct_id=1947
Take a look at the upper right corner of the box.....that's the same brand logo of an MP7[my least favourite collectible] that I obtained locally.

I just want opinions on the odds, I'm not going to try, at least until AFTER I get my NEXUS or passport, not put-downs or admonitions, just opinions.

Or stick to what's already in-country.....including a desert eagle model I saw.

Im simply telling what the facts are and the legal aspect AFAIK using case studies on previous appeals. Can CBSA catch ever prohibitive stuff? NO, infact 90% of all handgun used in crime came from U.S. to Canada illegally. What does this tell you? It can explain how some store actually got replicas into Canada without getting caught.

[Mudder]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

Im simply telling what the facts are and the legal aspect AFAIK using case studies on previous appeals. Can CBSA catch ever prohibitive stuff? NO, infact 90% of all handgun used in crime came from U.S. to Canada illegally. What does this tell you? It can explain how some store actually got replicas into Canada without getting caught.

OK, thanks....just the kind of reasoned response I'm looking for.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

such an appeal.. I know this for a fact

it just takes time for the item to be tested.. but if it shoots over 407 fps.. when tested by definition it can't be a replica.. and so is not subject to import restriction.

it cost nothing but time to appeal

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

such an appeal.. I know this for a fact

it just takes time for the item to be tested.. but if it shoots over 407 fps.. when tested by definition it can't be a replica.. and so is not subject to import restriction.

it cost nothing but time to appeal

And what kind of BB's will they use? If they use .4's or something, it won't be above 407. And if they use light BB's, it might be above 500!

[lemegacool]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

such an appeal.. I know this for a fact

it just takes time for the item to be tested.. but if it shoots over 407 fps.. when tested by definition it can't be a replica.. and so is not subject to import restriction.

it cost nothing but time to appeal

exactly! time and being polite is key in this... as well as velocity

[Conker]

Originally Posted by Styrak

And what kind of BB's will they use? If they use .4's or something, it won't be above 407. And if they use light BB's, it might be above 500!

^^ What I thought.

Also, if it's an AEG (or full auto GBB for that matter) isn't it illegal, since it's full auto?

Also magazine capacity? Etc...